[12:01 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: in theory we are on c# 12
[12:01 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well lsl is on lsl :p
[12:03 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: brb. My senior cat is being a nuisance.
[12:03 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: any idea what order OSG is sorting out the inventory, or is it totally random what is processed
[12:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: great news on last week code changes.. no new bugs where added!!
[12:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well thats because there where not code changes.. details...
[12:07 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back.
[12:08 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: come to think of it, is Kayaker in the LA area?
[12:09 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know where he is located.
[12:10 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and you're about to become American :-)
[12:10 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: next week, hehe
[12:11 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: :P More "Trumpisms".
[12:11 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: who's from Greenland?
[12:11 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oh, Republic of Canadastan
[12:11 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Don't even mention it because the entire Greenland thing is outrageous
[12:11 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yes terrible situation
[12:12 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: A lot of the things Trump says is outrageous but we best leave that discussion for another time.
[12:12 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[12:12 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I grew up just 1/4 mile from the flames in LA. I don't live there anymore but know people who have lost homes or evacuated
[12:13 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well not the place to talk trumlitics
[12:13 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: agree
[12:14 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, I would suspect the order in which data is becoming available is going to be somewhat random. You would need to ask Dan to get any real details about the process.
[12:16 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, my entire inventory is toast, as all default clothing and such is missing so it is impossible to restore the avatar to anything even if you get new and missing clothes, shapes, skins etc
[12:16 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't what to create a new one as this one dates back to 2008
[12:17 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: The shirt I'm wearing got affected by some other outage ages ago. The graphic isn't as sharp as it used to be.
[12:17 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the OSG one I mean
[12:18 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Kayaker said last week I think that all his missing stuff was back, after several weeks of waiting
[12:18 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: But they did say it might take months for some inventory to appear
[12:19 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: They really need to take a hacksaw to it and clean all the junk out
[12:19 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I have a weekly thing that counts notecards in assets and I have been seeing 16000 being created every week for about a month now
[12:19 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Nice idea. Easier said than done.
[12:19 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: All named "storagenc-old"
[12:20 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Have a pretty good idea where they come from as well
[12:20 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Some osmakenotecard nonsense that runs to frequently as to cause serious bloat
[12:20 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I can see all folders and items but they are all empty
[12:20 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: more or less
[12:21 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: I've often wondered if there was a better way to handle NCs and know when an NC (or script) can be updated on a save vs times a new asset is created.
[12:22 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: reminds me of the customer who wrote their own backup system. One day they had to restore and the restore went very fast. It turned out they had only backed up the names in the file system, but none of the data, so they had a nice layout off all they had lost
[12:22 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If you need to store data, store it in the prim description. Only make a notecard if it doesn't fit in the description in some way and obviously don't make a notecard every 5 minutes
[12:22 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: some uses of notecards can now be linksetdata
[12:23 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: don't need a NC now with the new-ish linkset data store LSL functions
[12:24 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but all scripts doing that would have to be re-written
[12:26 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: better than prim descriptions
[12:27 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Randomly checking contents of said notecards
[12:27 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: null;Class A2 Gas Oil,Class D Green D HVO,Class B20 BioDiesel FAME;1002,1002,1002;1677234340
[12:27 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: As if that wouldn't fit into a prim description
[12:27 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: BioDiesel?
[12:28 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Update original script or NC on a change and only create new asset when someone takes a copy. Sounds like that makes sense but there are probably complications in practice.
[12:28 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Most of these nonsense notecards are either from that satyr farm crap or some roleplay scripts based on similar code
[12:28 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That stuff has been spamming notecards for years now
[12:28 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Can't imagine the load osg must have of all this
[12:29 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Must be billions
[12:29 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Worst case I had over 30 million of those notecards
[12:29 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: And ZetaWorlds isn't that big in terms of people running farms and things, so yikes
[12:30 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: too bad the assets can't be isolated by user
[12:31 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: On grids where you can see the region database you can trace the references back to it, but in places where the users run the regions that's a lot harder
[12:31 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yeah and likely impossible on OSG
[12:32 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Frankly I just nuke these notecards, because the vast majority is no longer referenced anyways, they are discarded so to speak
[12:32 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If it causes issues, great now someone is complaining about it and you can tell them to use better scripts
[12:32 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Nuclear approach, but what can ya do
[12:33 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: While we're talking about prim descriptions, my console shows warnings sometimes that prim descriptions longer than 64 chars seem to get truncated to 64 chars. Is that a hard limit, and why does the viewer let me enter more chars?
[12:33 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I only use that for putting URL, for such things as attributions
[12:34 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The viewer also limits group title lengths and other things, it's hardcoded into it, technically the descriptions should hold 127 characters
[12:34 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: not a big issue but wanted to ask
[12:34 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hard SL limits in the viewers
[12:35 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I can enter more than 64 then I see a console message that it was truncated
[12:35 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: correct
[12:35 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok, just checking that it's normal :)
[12:35 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Ideally, those should matchup
[12:37 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That's when it writes assets, name and description length in assetbase is set to 64
[12:37 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Hardcoded constant
[12:37 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: could that be safely changed to 128? or does that break a spec
[12:38 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: if the viewer is ok with 127
[12:38 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Well the sql files that setup the tables set it to 64 as well, so if that was changed it would cause the db to complain instead
[12:39 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: we don;t want that
[12:39 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Lengthening shouldn't be a problem though
[12:39 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: sql migration to change field size
[12:39 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: a new db migration version?
[12:39 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Only problem is that's a breaking change in terms of hypergrid, because you wouldn't be able to move an item with large description to the one running older code
[12:40 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It'd cause a db error on import
[12:40 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: that makes sense
[12:40 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: for HG inventory
[12:41 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, other grids would complain about the name being too long and would truncateit.
[12:41 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Would need to force it to create a new asset instead which would then truncate it again
[12:41 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Which isn't how that is meant to work so a bit of a problem to change
[12:41 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but only the temp HG asset would be truncated
[12:42 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I can see its not a simple issue
[12:42 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The way import normally works is by creating the local asset as a copy, not as a new asset, so it doesn't go through the code that would sanity check that
[12:43 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I see , ok, not a simple fix
[12:43 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: What I'm wondering is what the actual spec is for how long they are meant to be
[12:43 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Is 64 the limit as per spec or is it 128
[12:43 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: (Evidently I set it to 256 at one point looking at my asset table)
[12:43 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 64 is the SL spec
[12:43 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Ah ok so that's proper then
[12:44 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: So the viewer should fix a hard limit of 64 then
[12:44 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: should and should
[12:45 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thanks for clarifying
[12:45 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: On assets, but with prims... those I think are all set to 255 default varchar
[12:45 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: A locally stored prim can have a longer description, but moving it to inventory you create an asset where it gets truncated...
[12:46 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: That seems like a non-ideal design
[12:46 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: SL spec in a nutshell
[12:46 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: "thanks SL"
[12:47 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: [12:47 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what if it is a binary cookie?
[12:48 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks grins at Vincent
[12:48 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That sounds like the name of something cloudflare messed up
[12:49 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Has anyone here had success with webrtc and Janus with MisterBlue's plug-in?
[12:50 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The beta viewer really did not work in the end? Odd
[12:51 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I've been playing with it recently so wanted to compare notes
[12:52 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I did manage to build janus on the Mac, and connect it to the new plugin, but... errors...
[12:53 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's saying that the wrong protocol was requested, which shouldn't be since the newer FS versions should be using webrtc now. Unless there is something that signals the viewer what's available
[12:53 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Haven't looked much into it though
[12:54 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok. I've been in touch with mrBlue but wanted to see if anyone got further than I did
[12:54 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: guess not :)
[12:55 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It could be caching region x = vivox somewhere or maybe it's not working quite right with standalones
[12:55 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I shut off Vivox in the configs. It starts up file with no errors. Issues with 2 or more people
[12:55 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: starts up fine*
[12:56 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: gory details on Discord
[12:56 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'd let it cook some more, wait for feature parity with freeswitch before it really becomes viable
[12:57 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: His github should have issues enabled so I'd file it there and wait :)
[12:57 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: sounds like wise advice
[12:57 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok thanks
[12:58 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Setting up janus is actually fairly easy yes, surprisingly a large project like that with installation instructions that work and not assume you somehow already have some dependencies installed. That's rare
[12:58 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: agree. I was pretty surprised how easy it was to build
[12:59 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well done
[12:59 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the plugin is very, very complicated
[1:01 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Assuming a large scale requirement for it then the project is maybe at the 10% mark at best. Much like freeswitch just having a local instance probably isn't going to work so well in many cases where users are far apart, so it'll be interesting to see if janus can even support distributed setups
[1:02 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Forcing voice through it as proxy for privacy protection is a great idea, but that can create a triangle of latency when it's not close to being in between whoever connects to it
[1:02 PM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Hence why most webrtc ends up establishing peer to peer connections, but that's not so great for keeping anonymous
[1:04 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yeah
[1:05 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hello, just out of class *smiles* sorry to miss the meeting
[1:05 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Lyr.
[1:05 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hi Lyr :)
[1:05 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 grins
[1:06 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Everyone good?
[1:07 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Pretty much. There was some question of whether Kayaker is living in the LA area or not.
[1:07 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 chuckles
[1:07 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi, yes, but I need to go to take care of something RL
[1:07 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: not the last time I checked, but he's adventuresome
[1:07 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: take care!
[1:07 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: have a great week everyone
[1:07 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: You mean the fires...very sad
[1:07 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Gavin. See you again next week.
[1:07 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Take care
[1:08 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: yeah. We talked about LA fires, webrtc, and character length limits prim descriptions
[1:08 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: important
[1:09 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: well, for anyone in Los Angeles, you have our deepest sympathies
[1:09 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and OSG inventory woes
[1:09 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: inventory is a challenge :(
[1:12 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: The dino is getting close
[1:12 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: that's good
[1:13 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: well if we are finished, I'll head to breakfast *grins* Wishing you all a grand week
[1:13 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: you too, tc Lyr
[1:13 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I sense rl *grins* is calling
[1:14 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: have fun!
[1:14 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Lyr. We are pretty much finished for the day. See you again next week.
[1:15 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I should probably go too, before we all get trampled by the Dino
[1:15 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hehe
[1:15 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: love it
[1:15 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Any last minute items?
[1:15 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: take care
[1:15 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Vincent, thanks!
[1:15 PM PT] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Ubit, have a great day
[1:15 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thanks everyone.. have a great week
[1:16 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Cuga. See you next week.
[1:16 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Time to call todays meeting to a close. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
