[11:07 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @westworldgrid.net:8002: Hello, everyone.
[11:07 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hi all!
[11:07 AM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Hello *grins*
[11:07 AM] Andrew.Hellershanks @westworldgrid.net:8002: Good timing, Cuga. :)
[11:08 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: There are a couple of Mac issues going on
[11:08 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I found why your dylib signature expires
[11:08 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: oh do tell
[11:08 AM] Jagga Meridith: logger?
[11:09 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you sign with the --timestamp option, it will check if the signing certificate was valid at the time when the dylib was signed
[11:09 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: without it will check against the latest cert
[11:09 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok, great to know
[11:09 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I could re-sign all of them with that option
[11:09 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so using --timestamp, the signature will never expire unless the certificate is actually revoked
[11:10 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well thats the other problem
[11:10 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, you should
[11:10 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the certificates that Apple offers only last for a year
[11:10 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, but use --timestamp
[11:10 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok, so when the certificate expires, the dylib will still load bc it was valid when it was signed?
[11:10 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: this is why my signed dylibs still work despite newer certificates
[11:11 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: correct
[11:11 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok *thanks Apple*
[11:11 AM] Vincent Sylvester: lol
[11:11 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: let me re-sign all 3 libs with that option
[11:11 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good
[11:11 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ther eare a few follow-on questions about that
[11:12 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the 0.9,3.0 release has that problem. Would it make sense to re-package that with the newer libs?
[11:12 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: there are no dependencies with OS code in those unmanaged libs
[11:13 AM] Vincent Sylvester: It likely still fail on the part of it not being compatible somehow, so only thing it would fix is the cert
[11:13 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Vincent, I agree, on the Mac side, the build process for all libs are documented at my github page
[11:13 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: :p
[11:13 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: fine with me if that info is moved to os.com
[11:13 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:14 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: right.. the libsqlite segfaulting is a separate issue
[11:14 AM] Vincent Sylvester: We have to build new libraries for all platforms eventually anyways, so having the process documented would certainly help with testing
[11:14 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: os.com?
[11:15 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: opensimulator.org I mean
[11:15 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I suspect there not really being anything that will break given the implementation of sqlite is fairly generic, but who knows
[11:15 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I could start building different versions of libsqlite and just pop them in one at a time to see which breaks
[11:15 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Windows and Linux can probably benefit from newer versions too
[11:16 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: agree
[11:17 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Ubit, under that reasoning, we could just use the libsqlite that comes with the system
[11:17 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which version of xcode do you use?
[11:17 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ther latest
[11:17 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Part of why it makes sense to document the process, cause I also would like to try and build it on the m4 and see if building it on hardware makes a difference
[11:17 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: did you set a deployment target?
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: gavin yes, and tested, taget is macOS 10.15, and I have a test machine to check with of that OS
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: actually re-checked this weekend
[11:18 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Far as I hear it has been faulting on pretty much all the arm based chips now including the pi
[11:18 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 10.15 is till supported with brew, dotnet, etc
[11:18 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: try build it with target 10.14 which I am sure mine are built with
[11:18 AM] Vincent Sylvester: piusnoel reported on irc his attempts to use it failed and that was a pi I think
[11:19 AM] Vincent Sylvester: So definitely it seems to dislike arm
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well 10.15 is the earlest that dotnet 8 will install on
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I believe
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so that seemed like a good choice
[11:19 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: has to do with library support
[11:19 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok I can change it to 10.14
[11:19 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: squlite does not depend on dotnet anyway
[11:20 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: you mean rebuils all the libs like that or just libsqlite?
[11:20 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and since the code is from 2011?
[11:20 AM] Vincent Sylvester: The ubode and bullet one seems fine apart from that quarantine crap
[11:20 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it probably needs support for some old lib
[11:20 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: in 2011 10.14 was a few years in the future. I think we were on 10.8 or something
[11:20 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just libsqlite
[11:21 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok
[11:21 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, irrelevant
[11:21 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so just to recap
[11:21 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the issue is when support were removed from macOS
[11:21 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 1) re-sign the 3 unmanaged libs
[11:21 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 2) rebuild libsqlite with 10.14 set to the target
[11:21 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[11:21 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but with same old version
[11:21 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[11:21 AM] Vincent Sylvester: 3 Document the process on the wiki
[11:22 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Document just sqlite or all the unmanged libs?
[11:22 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: for the others I can just copy my docs from my github page over
[11:23 AM] Vincent Sylvester: All of the preferably, but sqlite would be a start
[11:23 AM] Vincent Sylvester: I have to look at libgdi at some point since it seems we may have to start shipping that too
[11:23 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: sqlite is really nothing more than editing the make file to include 2 architectures, run configure and make
[11:23 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thats all
[11:23 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Remember 10.15 was the first macOS version that only support 64-bit libs, so they removed all kinds of old crap because of that
[11:24 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 32 bit is not supported on current xCode
[11:24 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: hasnt been for a while
[11:24 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: although... macOS earlier than 10.15 did support 64 bit, just wasn;t 64-bit only
[11:24 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they removed a lot of old functionality from the system in 10.15
[11:25 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I wil try and see what happens
[11:25 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I would try and see what happens
[11:25 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but nobdy riunning opensim will be using anything older than 10.15, dotnet wont install on earlier
[11:26 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok
[11:26 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I get that but the old code will most likely make old system calls that has been removed from 10.15 onwards
[11:26 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: possibly. But I think XCode dropped that too
[11:26 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I will try
[11:26 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so by building for target 10.14 the necessary code will be included with the lib
[11:27 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well about opensim code changes during last week.. i just did add LSL_Integer osListFindListNext(LSL_List src, LSL_List test, LSL_Integer lstart, LSL_Integer lend, LSL_Integer instance), like ll one but with search restricted to a sublist
[11:27 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I have to say also that I compiled libsqlite and posted it to Mantis without fully testing it. I don;t think it should be in trunk until we test and confirm
[11:27 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: can we pull from trunk?
[11:27 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: i did not added the ll one because vincent had work on it and may submit it :)
[11:28 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the file can be posted and dropped into the file tree by hand for testing
[11:28 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: posted to Mantis
[11:28 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Vincent is there any reason you want to keep that broken libsqlite in trunk?
[11:28 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Should get a load of lsl stuff once I got around to test it heh
[11:28 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The current Dayturn viewer for macOS is built with target 10.14, while the version 3 beta is built for 10.15
[11:29 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok thats your decision
[11:29 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well commit to master is just extending the test group
[11:29 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well from now on I won;t post to Mantis if it segfualts
[11:29 AM] Vincent Sylvester: exactly
[11:29 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: really there is no reason to keep it there
[11:29 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: can you back out please
[11:30 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: unless there are other seg fault prettier than current ones :P
[11:30 AM] Vincent Sylvester: That might actually give a clue as to what is broken
[11:30 AM] Vincent Sylvester: If there is even issues with pi now
[11:31 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: looked deep into the system
[11:31 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Ubit makes the decisions what goes into trunk. My main thing right now is documenting the process so that it can be transparent what is shipped with the binary
[11:32 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ok
[11:32 AM] Vincent Sylvester: And to make it easier to build and test newer things and have the same underlying conditions
[11:32 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Well, the 0.9.3.0 release is now "broken" for mac users. Do you want that?
[11:32 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: When I re-sign the libs will you re-package?
[11:32 AM] Vincent Sylvester: It worked fine on the Intel ones
[11:32 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: brone bc signature?
[11:33 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: no, the gatekepper issue is also with Intel
[11:33 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: trunk is fine, 0.9.3.0 throws gatekeepwr issue
[11:33 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: re-packaging with re-signed liubs will fix
[11:34 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: or i can release 0.9.3.1 :p
[11:34 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: thats probably even better
[11:34 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Have to fix the libs first though before doing that
[11:34 AM] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: hi
[11:34 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the lib re-signing is quick and easy, can do next couple days
[11:35 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the sqlite issue is something else
[11:35 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah would be nice to have mac arm sqlite working also
[11:36 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and if the 2011 one still segfaults I will try rebuilding other versions, if Vincent can help determine which
[11:36 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ofc win version is very old... but that is the one for mono sqlite
[11:36 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: we kno9w the current libsqlite that comes with the OS is fine
[11:36 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: with macOS
[11:36 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so sometime between 2011 and 2025
[11:36 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: :)
[11:37 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Yes you can and I do
[11:37 AM] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not 10.14 I am pretty sure
[11:37 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Lots of changelogs to read
[11:37 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the unmanaged livs built on my aMac run both arches and run on 10.15
[11:37 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and on 15.4
[11:38 AM] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: I wonder if the devs publish binaries? they often do for popular libraries
[11:38 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: https://sqlite.org/download.html
[11:39 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: like that dahlia.Trimble ?
[11:39 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: seems no arm there
[11:39 AM] Vincent Sylvester: There might also be unit tests for these libs that we could explore, perhaps they provide some information on the seg fault
[11:40 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah dream on :p
[11:40 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: seg fault is 1 hard for any tests to see..
[11:40 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: 2 hard
[11:41 AM] Vincent Sylvester: seg fault itself is memory. Given these libs are C or C code that can happen if some calls have changed. I just find it odd that it compiles but fails at runtime. Modern compilers do have some checks to stop you doing dangerous things
[11:41 AM] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: could have just been me missing it
[11:41 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: guess not there at all..
[11:42 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( mb arm on android.. )
[11:43 AM] Vincent Sylvester: It failing on pi arm it should be loading the .so not the .dylib so I wonder why that blows up as well
[11:43 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so nothing to re-sign. Gatekeeper issue is something else
[11:44 AM] Vincent Sylvester: Bit of a weird thing, but generally updating that library to a newer version should help with things either way
[11:44 AM] Vincent Sylvester: What was that gatekeeper issue again?
[11:45 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah ive no idea that that gatekeeper issue is also
[11:45 AM] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: seems strange that it would segfault on a signing failure
[11:46 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Gavin and I are discussing it
[11:46 AM] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: it looks like Gavin and I have been using exactly the same signing commands
[11:47 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( jezz 133 source files.. on something as "basic" as sqlite"
[11:47 AM] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: lol
[11:47 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( guess some of those coders where payed per line of code .. )
[11:48 AM] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: maybe they have one of those rules like no more than 1000 lines in a source file
[11:48 AM] Vincent Sylvester: The development history is colorful
[11:51 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: we use our own fork
[11:52 AM] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ya but do you maintain client side?
[11:52 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: but only gets code on parts needed by server
[11:52 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so yeah no care for client side
[11:53 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: https://bitbucket.org/opensimulator/workspace/repositories/
[11:54 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: evenqueue client code will need a fix for recent sl
[11:54 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it does need to handle event id and retries as sl wants
[11:55 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: think ll told that radagast is brokne bc of that
[11:55 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well now all use cinder version of it.. so..
[11:55 AM] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: but my code is ancient
[11:55 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ofc there is also cnder fork..
[11:56 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: libremetaverse
[11:56 AM] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: oh yeah she took over radegast
[11:56 AM] Dahlia.Trimble @grid.wwweb3d.net:8002: ty for reminding me
[11:56 AM] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: np
[12:00 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @westworldgrid.net:8002: Any other items for today?
[12:01 PM] Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Thanks, everyone! Have a great week!
[12:01 PM] Andrew.Hellershanks @westworldgrid.net:8002: That will do it for another week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
