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[11:02 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[11:02 AM PT] Lyr Lobo grins
[11:02 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: Hello Andrew
[11:03 AM PT] Arielle Popstar: heyas
[11:03 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ohh andrew's cat did update his sun clock :)
[11:03 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Have we lost anyone?
[11:04 AM PT] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Hi everyone
[11:04 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: think someone does sit next to selby ?
[11:04 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: Great to see you, Selby
[11:04 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: welcome selby
[11:05 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't take attendance as this isn't a school gathering.
[11:05 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:06 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: we have cuga and jagga
[11:06 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ok.. so
[11:06 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. I hope they will be appearing soon (if they are going to be attending today).
[11:06 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: abotu last week code changes...
[11:06 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: again not much
[11:07 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I was just about to suggest you go ahead with your weekly summary.
[11:07 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: a few this and that on dotnet6 branch :)
[11:07 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you sort have me nervous when the commit massage only say: test changes
[11:07 AM PT] Lyr Lobo grins
[11:07 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: message even
[11:08 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: on master i just did push code to persist animesh animations on sqlite and pgsql
[11:08 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: only had it for mysql.. for some reason
[11:08 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there are a couple others like that too
[11:08 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( ofc also on dotnet6 )
[11:09 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: also made a change on udp
[11:09 AM PT] Arielle Popstar: oh?
[11:09 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hopefully not what LL is doing replacing all UDP with AIS API calls
[11:09 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: preventing a possilble stack overflow.. there since change to .net4.5 or so
[11:10 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: the async receive we do can actually be doen sync..
[11:11 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so all on same thread. and that would mean ading calls to nxet receive code on same stack
[11:11 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: something that cna happen on heavy udp trafic..
[11:11 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: fun
[11:11 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:12 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well and thats most it
[11:12 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: on dotnet6 again more "cosmetic changes" ;)
[11:12 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and a test feature that did scare gavin? :)
[11:13 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: The only other minor change was to fix a bounds check in GetLinkSitingAvatar
[11:13 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: btw still doing dayturn devel gavin?
[11:13 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ahh yes thx andrew
[11:13 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, the version that works on SL has had 32 preview releases
[11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ok
[11:14 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have started adding back the opensim support code
[11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:14 AM PT] Lyr Lobo: wonderful
[11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: following that pbr thing at sl?
[11:14 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so basically some login code and the old grid manager needs to go back before first login
[11:14 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Also profile stuff
[11:14 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:14 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: and local bakes and similar "minor" details :)
[11:15 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I follow it with scepticism
[11:15 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: profiles and bakes are sure things to fix up, but the state of the union cannot be determined before login is a fact
[11:16 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The macOS version is still getting regular updates for OpenSim
[11:16 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all can be downloaded from here https://www.dayturn.com/viewer/index.php?resources/
[11:16 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's a "fun" situation as it stands given some support code for profiles on master, but not on last release so currently it's all over the place anyhow
[11:16 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: SL version is pretty much up to spec some on SecondLife
[11:17 AM PT] Arielle Popstar: oh picks work on mine again
[11:17 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have all the old profile layouts and code, so might revert to that because the new SL version is not impressive
[11:18 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Someone is blowing fresh wind into SL though it suspiciously smells of fart thus far
[11:18 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no RLV support, no 32.bit Windows
[11:18 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: all want to kill 32bit :(
[11:19 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I wanna meet the person that still runs on that, finally put them out of their misery
[11:19 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Xcode is giving both me and LL a hard time over 32-bit code in the viewer
[11:19 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or 32-bit data types rather
[11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well 32bit data types stay 32bit on 64 bit
[11:20 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: must even :)
[11:20 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which Xcode now flags as a must fix issue
[11:20 AM PT] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: there's still a ton of 32 bit software out there
[11:21 AM PT] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: I agree just making the point
[11:21 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:21 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: about a top on oar..
[11:22 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: on a previus meeting
[11:22 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have another oar issue
[11:22 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: it did look to code after that, and does seem, the home option is really needed to store full HG information on creators :(
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: without it, only the UUID is stored
[11:23 AM PT] Arielle Popstar: nods
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so.. not HG
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i gave incorrect answer back then..
[11:23 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: guess that code should change... one day ;)
[11:24 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: oar should be hg by default...
[11:24 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the issue I had now with moving the grid and importing oars is that everything in world is created by me and not the original creator
[11:24 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Far as I could tell though it changes the address for everything to what you set it to so if the creators are not all from the grid the oar is made on it will botch the data or does it not?
[11:24 AM PT] Arielle Popstar: yes which is a pain if you want to track down the original creator
[11:25 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeh that home option may break real HG already stored.. but i forgot the code details.. **again** lol
[11:26 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: this was several weeks ago.. many... :)
[11:26 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Also for stuff say bought from Kitely, if the creator is not in Griduser with a proper address back to Kitely, it does not show as creator in-world
[11:26 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Kinda odd it doesn't store the uui by default though I thought that's what creatordata is
[11:27 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sot that was an important table to copy over to the new database instance before adding any assets or region data
[11:27 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah guess that part of oas do need revision
[11:27 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: oars
[11:28 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Shouldn't need that much change to fetch the uui and stuff that in there, but I guess it technically means we are changing the oar format slightly
[11:28 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: So need to handle both cases for backwards compat
[11:28 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: fun that patch andrew
[11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: - else
else
[11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ?
[11:29 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: carriage returns?
[11:29 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Attack of the tabs
[11:29 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Else is a woman's name in Norway
[11:30 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, that's not the right patch. I'll redo it.
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: nm
[11:30 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i will apply it by hand
[11:30 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: My editor set up automatically fixes white space so the patch included some white space changes.
[11:31 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: The point was to give you an am formatted patch so I get the credit for the fix.
[11:31 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[11:31 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Hate it when vs does that
[11:31 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ill try to remember to crdit on the commit :)
[11:32 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: as i do most time
[11:32 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, but I won't get the credit in black duck.
[11:32 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that still works?
[11:33 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is black duck?
[11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: https://www.openhub.net/p/opensimulator/contributors/summary
[11:33 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: stats on projects
[11:33 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[11:35 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, black duck used to be called ohloh.net. It tracks Open Source projects and provides statistics about them including who has contributed to a project and how many commits each person has made.
[11:36 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: got it
[11:36 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: https://www.openhub.net/
[11:37 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bookmarked
[11:37 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: can add yours there.. hmm somehow.. :)
[11:38 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so what news do you have about opensim?
[11:39 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: apart from, as already mentioned, moving the grid to dotnet6, I'm good for today
[11:39 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:39 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, One thing aboutblack duck is that it only seems to track commits made to the main branch of a project. Contributions made to a branch don't seem to show up in stats.
[11:39 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah dotnet6 not counted there :)
[11:40 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: all those pretty "cosmetics" commits.. uff
[11:40 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ;)
[11:40 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I should be well over 1,000 commits but it didn't track changes I made to a branch of one of the project I worked on.
[11:40 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: heh - yeah, git collapse all brances on merge, so I can see why that is hard to track
[11:40 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is a major issue in trying to figure out chages LL does in the viewer code
[11:40 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not even that gavin.. it just only looks to main
[11:40 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: if we tell it to look on more, it double counts commits
[11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah same commit on 2 branchs counts as 2
[11:42 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: That is technically correct.
[11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well not really
[11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: i is one commit..
[11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: it is..
[11:42 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: now you only get like merged PR #7, and all the branches that made up the PR are zapped
[11:42 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Same code but still two different commits.
[11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not really
[11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but details
[11:43 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: it only sees master.. so academic discussion ;:)
[11:44 AM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: The site does provide some insight as to activity on a given project.
[11:44 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so when they merge the PBR code into master, the entire development branch and sub branches are gone
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hmm? gavin?
[11:44 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for the LL viewer
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: htey have a ton of paralell branchs with several projects
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: liek the pupblabla thing
[11:45 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is a royal mess
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but guess that PR is a github thing
[11:46 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Bitbucket have PR too, but they work a little different
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well ll moved out of bitbucket now
[11:47 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:48 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have party too
[11:48 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: partly
[11:49 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: viewer code is not on github
[11:50 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: now*
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[11:51 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Hey Gavin, on another topic, did you have a chance to run the dotnet6 branch on Apple Silicon with the pre-built unmanaged libs - Bullet/ubODE/libJpeg2 ? Any issues on those ?
[11:51 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Also have you tried the unmanaged libs with dotnet6 on Intel Mac?
[11:52 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Asking because I saw an issue this week with Intel Mac on an older operating system
[11:52 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:52 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all my regions and robust are running dotnet6 on intel macOS
[11:53 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: which macOS?
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: also notice a bit improvement on dotnet6 ?
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: relative to mono...
[11:53 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ventura or Monterey
[11:53 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Big Sur seems to have a problematic secirity policy. Works on older or later macOS's
[11:53 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: speed seems to be comparable
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( well opensim code on dotnet6 is now a bit dif from master here and there )
[11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: using less memory
[11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: even uses simd on intel :)
[11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually robust is running on dotnet6 on debian 11
[11:54 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: wle ok ok uses it only on UUID parsing.. details..
[11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but works on macOS too
[11:55 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: shuodl work on rasp
[11:55 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: didn't we had the unmanaged libs already?
[11:55 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: finish the switch to mysql?
[11:55 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: might moce robust to the db server, so it can copy stuff over localhost and not drag it over the net
[11:55 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: move*
[11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mysql on Apple Silocon
[11:56 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: congratulations
[11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: data moved with Navicat, mostly xml export import, but some direct copied over
[11:56 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thanks
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so no issues with unmanaged libs then on Intel?
[11:57 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nope
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: great
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I tried dotnet6 branch on a Big Sur Intel Mac and it couldn;t load the libs
[11:57 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the universal libs I built, that is
[11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: :(
[11:58 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Big Sur is known for having issues with security ploicy
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: hard to debug the load process
[11:58 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think that has more to do with dotnet6 itself than anything else
[11:58 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not sure what Microsoft say is the required version?
[11:58 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: maybe
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: remember i had to had a replacement for mono discovery
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: mono did read those *config files
[11:59 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I uninstalled mono everywhere, also on debian
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: now i had to add code to parse them and hack things..
[11:59 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Andrew seems to be an expert on making mono and dotnet6 co-exist
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: they just coexist
[11:59 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: this region machine as both
[12:00 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: he had to prune some stuff
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: guess all osgrid boxes still have both
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: one even also has dotnet7
[12:00 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, I do have mono and dotnet6 on my main machine. There was no magic involved. I just installed the dotnet6 packages.
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( did not like dotnet7 memory usage )
[12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you need libgdiplus still, but that is a separate install reallly
[12:00 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: well maybe it's an issue for standalone then
[12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: *shrugs*
[12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: if you have mono, you have libgdiplus already
[12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'm going to test dotnet6 on an even older macOS and see what happens.
[12:01 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: I mostly run OS in standalone mode.
[12:01 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, but Imuninstalled mono :-)
[12:01 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes, I do have a separate package installed for libgdiplus.
[12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Would be good to document which macOS versions work and which don't
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: lets see it that still works on dotnet8
[12:02 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well see next november or so...
[12:02 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:02 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't have any machines running Catalina any more, but I have one running Big Sur, so could try on that one
[12:03 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Big Sur is the one I'm having trouble with
[12:03 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: OK, the one installation I have of that is using the opencore patcher
[12:03 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but can give it a shot
[12:04 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but only Bullet is universal in OS at github
[12:04 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ubODE is not universal bc I couldn;t figure out how to build it that way
[12:04 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is a 2012 Book Pro, so 13 year old machine
[12:04 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 11 maybe
[12:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( he means a univeral unmanaged lib.. actually a large file with several libs for all cases ;) )
[12:05 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I have a universal libJpeg2 but it hasn't been merged with OS main trunk
[12:05 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: it's just x86_64 ands arm64
[12:05 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is plenty fine
[12:05 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unless you want to add PowerPC support
[12:06 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: years ago i was seeing universal libs with PowerPC, and 32 and 64 intel
[12:06 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: :p
[12:06 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have seen those too
[12:06 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: in fact I think one of the libs in OS trunk has those
[12:06 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL viewer code had the same for a very long time
[12:06 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they were building with target 10.7
[12:06 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: poerPC was a thing..
[12:06 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and then 10.9
[12:06 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but dotnet6 soesnt support 32 bit
[12:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: and powerPC also
[12:07 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so x86_64 and arm64 is the way for Mac now
[12:07 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: PowerPC was a godsend when it arrived
[12:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: wel it does .. for 32bit cpus
[12:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: just on intel they decided to not support
[12:07 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: ahh
[12:07 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all the Motorola 68xxx code ran 2-4 times faster on it
[12:08 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: 68k ftw! :)
[12:08 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: powerpc was close if not better than intel counterparts backthen
[12:08 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: but not for long..
[12:08 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it was fine till around 2003ish
[12:09 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: motorola lost the race with the 68040.. then lost it again with the powerpc
[12:09 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: IMB still use POWER
[12:09 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: IBM
[12:09 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: just not the PC
[12:09 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I thought they switched bc of supply chain issues not performance, but it worked out ok anyway..
[12:10 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ibm ketp using the multichip versions
[12:10 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Apple switched to Intel because IBM was not interested in making mobile versions of the processors
[12:10 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so ti was not really a performance issue, but a power / heat issue
[12:10 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: IBM screwed up and killed off their project even though they could have made tones of money because they had the yields on everybody else
[12:11 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well but powerpc did lost relatifve performance
[12:11 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: or they couldn;t get them bc they were all taken by other buyers
[12:11 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: intel chips just got.. faster..
[12:11 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it did because IBM did not make a new generation, so they were stuck with PowerPC 4
[12:12 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: IBM got all the way out of it before Intel even really caught up
[12:12 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well intel was never that behing in performance terms..
[12:13 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: well
[12:14 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well and abotu opensim? no more news? :)
[12:14 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: It is now a quarter past the hour. Are there any other last minute Open Sim related items for today?
[12:14 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: Permissions issues
[12:14 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the first generation PowerPC Apple used ware twice as fast as the Pentiums at the time for comparable clocks and cost
[12:14 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: possible..
[12:14 PM PT] Lyr Lobo nods at Gavin
[12:14 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Gavin when you test in an older Mac can you try Catalina if possible
[12:14 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I think it works on Catalina but not Big Sur
[12:15 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: but as i said.. intel was fast to catchup and get better
[12:15 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: but works again on Monterey
[12:15 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: i made a particle emitter yesterday and gave it fiull permissions for me and whoever i gaeve it to but they do not receive it with those permissions
[12:15 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( well and amd.. ofc )
[12:15 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't have a machine with Catalina, Will have to build a completely new system then on an external disk
[12:15 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I'm going to try it on High Sierra :)
[12:15 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: particle emiter is a script
[12:15 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'll test on Big Sur first
[12:16 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: script was full perms
[12:16 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: HS will not work guaranteed
[12:16 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the dotnet6 installer will laugh at it and terminate
[12:16 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Arielle if you gave someone an object contaiing the script, the problem could be from a number of other things
[12:16 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, which grid were you using? Is it on the latest version of OS?
[12:16 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: permissions of the texture on the object, of other contents, or the object otself
[12:17 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: here, osgrid
[12:17 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: latest Osgrid release
[12:18 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok
[12:18 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: did you receive it with full perms Ubit?
[12:18 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: eek
[12:18 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, I also thought about texture perms.
[12:18 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: hides behind the haze
[12:19 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Most of my screen is hiding behind cat #1.
[12:19 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I have been doing a lot of object transfers between my avatars on diff grids, so something I've been dealing with lately
[12:20 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[12:21 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Is Ubit checking the perms on the object from Arielle?
[12:21 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes
[12:22 PM PT] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: bye all
[12:22 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: old issue... we always forget to give permissions also on the contents
[12:22 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: cya selby.Evans
[12:22 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Bye, Selby. See you next week.
[12:22 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Peace, Selby
[12:22 PM PT] Motoko.Karu @login.digiworldz.com:8002: cya selby
[12:22 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: bye Selby
[12:22 PM PT] Lyr Lobo waves
[12:22 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: tc Se;by
[12:22 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: bye selby
[12:22 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: common problem
[12:23 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Arielle said perms had been set on the script.
[12:23 PM PT] Jamie.Jordan @grid.kitely.com:8002: have a great week yall
[12:23 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: easy to miss because the permissions shown in inventory don't include those details
[12:23 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: wehre not
[12:23 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Jamie. Have a good week. See you next time
[12:23 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: details
[12:23 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: well not through the tab andrew
[12:23 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. That explains it then. Yes, a common issue.
[12:24 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: bye Jamie
[12:24 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: think in past maybe i would just use god mode
[12:24 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: sometimes it helps to use an alt avatar to test ownership transfer, before giving out to others
[12:24 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: god mode does "fix" several permissions issues :)
[12:24 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: 2 nuch even :)
[12:24 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: it does thank goodness!
[12:25 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[12:25 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: god mode is cheating :)
[12:25 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: When I'm building something I put the items in to a single directory and try to remember to set the perms on everything before I start assembling the object.
[12:25 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: and dangerous
[12:25 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Cuga, :)
[12:25 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: no becauise then it just becomes frustrating
[12:25 PM PT] Lyr Lobo nods
[12:25 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I usually try it with an alt avatar first
[12:25 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Frustrating is still doing things correctly, and sometimes is necessary, for reasons you have just discovered
[12:25 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: lot to remember
[12:26 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Yes
[12:26 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Perms on scripts, prims, textures, notecards.
[12:26 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Sound files.
[12:26 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Deal with the frustration of doing it wrong enough times, your memory will improve
[12:26 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: and besides, what is the proper method today, will likely change tommorrow
[12:27 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: actually that issue has not changed in long time
[12:27 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: just a process to learn
[12:27 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Building from the bottom up is never going to change
[12:27 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: the viewers used to allow setting perm issues in the preferences build menu
[12:27 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Trying to do it any other way gets it wrong
[12:27 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the next owner permissions need to be checked for all items in contents, and of the texture on the object
[12:28 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: that i saw is no longer there
[12:28 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, yes. that was possible in the past. At some point I found that it didn't always work.
[12:29 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: The Edfit window has next owner perms, but that only affects the oblect, not its contents
[12:29 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Edit*
[12:29 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[12:30 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: The way I do it is.. go to Contents tab, select all the items, then right click -> Properties
[12:30 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: and go thru ueach window one by one
[12:30 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: It can still be a pain if there are lots of items.
[12:30 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: hehe yes
[12:30 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: or it isnt sometyhing one does often
[12:31 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: It can be worse if you decide to change the permissions on something after it has been built.
[12:31 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: probably the last time i went through this the viewer still had permissions set in the viewers preferences Build
[12:31 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: this is so our objects can have no mod scripts and things done by others
[12:31 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: etc
[12:32 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: or we can ship scripts with no mod on mod objects..
[12:32 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: having it more restrictive by default is better for security
[12:32 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah that is the pain
[12:32 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: a new script shows up restricted :)
[12:32 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: and security in Opensim is a bit of an oxymoron
[12:32 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: also a new texture upload
[12:32 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: by spec
[12:33 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: security by obscurity
[12:33 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: anyway no matter, got what i needed, thank you
[12:33 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: take care, Arielle
[12:33 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Good.
[12:33 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: great topic
[12:34 PM PT] Arielle Popstar: might be the only documentation that exists for it :)
[12:34 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: We are now half past the hour. I need to get going so I will wrap up todays meeting. Glad to see that we didn't lose anyone due to the change to the clocks this past weekend.
[12:34 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: bye Andrew
[12:34 PM PT] Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
[12:34 PM PT] Lyr Lobo: take care, everyone *waves*
